FROM ONE MILESTONE TO THE NEXT, AN INSIDE LOOK AT CARL MUSIAL

Every person has taken a series of different roads that led them to where they are now. Some people keep on the road here at CASCO for many years, picking up different roles along the way. Here’s an inside look at one of CASCO’s most respectable employees, Carl Musial. Since September 9, 1977, Carl has served CASCO with great dedication handling multiple projects and holding multiple roles, most of them at the same time. Before he retired, our Social Media team had the honor of interviewing Carl getting to see a side of him that not very many people were able to see before.

38 years is a long time: it is 456 months, 1,981.43 weeks, and 13,870 days. Thirty-eight years of working at the same company also means a lot of new hires, good-byes, and overall changes for everything in that company. Fortunately for Carl, those changes meant growth in new departments and learning. He took us on a stroll through the history and challenges that has come with his 38 years of commitment.

Selita Paea: What brought you to CASCO?

Carl R Musial: I was going to school at Rankin Tech and at that time the teachers were telling us that this person named George Cassis would always hire tons of graduates to work at his business. So when school ended, I tried to get on at CASSIS but my brother in law, who also went to Rankin, got the job at CASSIS. Two years later he decided to leave CASSIS and said, "Hey the opening is there, why don't you go ahead and see if you can get on in the structural department with Jim Tegethoff". I did and I was hired. That's kind of what brought me, I wanted to go there right after school, I didn't get selected, my brother in law did, but I got there two years later.

SP: And you worked with Jim Tegethoff?

CRM: Yeah, Jim Tegethoff sat right across from me and taught me Structural Engineering; JC Alberts, who sat catty corner from me, taught me Civil Engineering. It was amazing!

“If you get thrown into the deep end, you’re going to learn how to swim.”

Erin Chapman: Did you know at the time that you wanted to stay working at CASSIS?

CRM: Not at that point. For my first job out of Rankin I was doing Architectural drafting for residential and all I knew was that I didn't want to stay in that. It really wasn't that interesting to me; I wanted to get more into buildings of some type. CASSIS was the first step to get out of the residential line. When I got to CASSIS they were doing industrial work and I had a chance to learn structural and civil engineering. Again, it's all about learning for me. I wasn't set on trying to design tall buildings; it was all about learning the different parts of the complete package. In those first couple years I learned structural, I learned civil, and I had experience out in the field, so to me it was just perfect.

EC: They invested in you.

CRM: Yeah, I call it being blessed because I don't think that kind of thing happens with luck. It was amazing, it really was.

SP: What was the first project you ever worked on at CASCO?

CRM: Back then we were doing industrial work, so it was a major plant for Continental Forrest Industries. That was our niche when we were called CASSIS Corporation, doing industrial facilities, mainly for corrugated box factories. These were large facilities with a lot of equipment in them. A railroad spur would come in and unload paper stock. In fact, I even remember the project number 7727. I don't know why I remember that. It was in Richmond, VA and I remember when Jim Tegethoff said, “Okay your first job is going to be this plant that we're building for Continental Forrest. It's a place that makes boxes, if you can figure that out”. It was one of those moments where you thought you just fell in the right place because I said, "Well you won't believe this but after high-school I worked in a box factory for two years. I know the machinery, I know the layouts, and I know the way things flow”. So that project was a lot easier for me. But it was just like I walked into a place that happened to specialize in the one field I knew something about.

EC: So when you were in the factory, were you like, "Man, why is it built this way? I wish I did it this way instead"?

CRM: That's a good question. In those factories, to move all of the flat, heavy, gigantic pieces of board around and get things to flow was very convoluted because they had conveyor systems and stuff; but it just didn't seem to work right. I was always thinking, "I know I'm the newbie here but I think it would be better if it went this way and then that way". George Cassis then sent me to that Richmond job and I wound up being there for three months while it was being built so I learned everything.

EC: Was that how it worked back then? You had to go and stay?

CRM: Well, when we were CASSIS Associates, George Cassis had a second company, a sister company, called Consul. That part of the company would build the buildings that we designed. So with the Richmond, VA job, he got the contractor to build it. He had one of his guys from Consul out on the job and they asked if somebody else could come out and help. He decided to send the newbie; I was the newbie so I went out. He gave me a one-way ticket, believe it or not, to Richmond. I was supposed to be there for two weeks and I was there for three months, and I was just married at that time.

EC: Did she come visit you?

CRM: He paid for her to visit me once. It was one of those things; I hated going out there, but by taking it on I just learned so much. Anything outside the normal was nice for me because I'm a person that constantly likes to look at situations, look at things, and see how they were built. To see the guys actually put up a gigantic plant, to me, was amazing. You can't learn that by sitting in a chair, or reading books.

EC: And those buildings don’t go up every day.

CRM: And it was a Civil War site too. Before they could start moving dirt they had to have somebody go out there and check to make sure it wasn’t an archeological site. I believe that they did find Civil War bullets on that site.

EC: What are all the roles you've had at CASCO? So you started off as a Drafter, right?

CRM: So I started off doing Structural Drafting and then Jim Tegethoff taught me structural design, of course he reviewed everything, but I learned design of structural elements. Then JC Alberts who didn't want to do civil engineering, he wanted to manage people, started to convince me to learn Civil Engineering. So then I was doing Civil Drafting and Civil Engineering, both for CASSIS. After that, I was managing all of the Civil Engineering we were doing in the office. But through the years I've been on every committee from the business standpoint, whether it was Executive Committees or being a mentor, one of JC mentors, or one of the people JC was mentoring. JC would throw into my eclectic group anything that didn't quite fit into the typical form of CASCO. So at one point we were doing Civil Engineering, Landscaping, and Architectural Shop Drawings. I had some architects in my group, estimating staff, basically anything that didn't quite fit with another group was thrown into the “give it to Carl” group. It was interesting, it worked out. But as much as I liked all those things, the most fun I've had was doing Civil Engineering because we had some really good guys that I worked with. We didn't have a very big group, but we had some really good guys. We pumped out the work.

EC: Are you registered in any states? If so, what states?

CRM: I'm registered as an architect in Missouri.

EC: Did you ever get registered in any others and let them expire?

CRM: No, here's the deal: I'm not registered because I didn't go for the four, five year degree back then. I went to a trade school, so for me to be registered was interesting and difficult enough. I had to get accepted to sit for the exam through - I think I had fifteen years of experience? I gave that qualification to the review board and they accepted me to take the exam and I passed it. So mine wasn't the typical way of getting to sit for that exam, but it also made it more difficult once I passed it - I got Missouri, but to get other states wasn't easy so I just stopped at Missouri. I was pretty happy with passing the exam.

“Take on every opportunity that's offered to you; and even if you fail, there's the old saying:

The bad side of failing is when someone hasn't even really tried.”

EC: What piece of advice would you give 25 year old Carl Musial?

CRM: It would be to take on every opportunity that is offered to you. I've always looked at a career as not just that you've worked somewhere for a long period of time, but as, "What have you done with that career?" or your time-span at a certain business. If you're doing the same thing you were thirty-five, forty years ago, that's great, but to me I always wanted to do something more than that. I've always wanted to know about architecture, engineering, the field work, business side of it... So I would say to young me, just take on every opportunity that's offered to you. And even if you fail, there's the old saying: The bad side of failing is when someone hasn't even really tried. I have failed at things here, but I have learned from every one of those failures. Just do everything possible to take on as much as possible.

EC: What are some major changes in the industry that you’ve noticed?

CRM: Probably... When I started, production drawings were all done by hand. So whether it was drafting for your drawings or your drafting for renderings, it was all done by hand. All your calculations were done by hand. And so one of the biggest things I think first is that computers changed everything. You can do CAD drawings, you can do 3D modeling with CAD. You can do all your calculations for any of the engineering disciplines through computer programs. We didn't have those before. The second biggest thing, I think, is the change in how information is delivered. In the past it was basically mail and UPS, and now it's instantaneous with the internet. So those are probably the two largest things that I've seen that have changed.

EC: What about working next to your fellow employees in the office? Is there less talking, more talking?

CRM: No, there's a lot less talking now, I believe. There was constant interaction with people, whether it was talking about projects or it was just personal discussions. I can just listen and hear it. I was a big proponent of interaction with people, and it doesn't always have to be business related. I think the more interaction and communication you have with people leads to a better environment, plus possibly trickles down to what we're producing.

SP: What would you consider to be the most challenging part of your job here at CASCO?

CRM: I think the most difficult part has nothing to do with drawings or design; it has to do with trying to make decisions that are not based upon my personal preference but on a fairness approach from three different veins: that would be what's fair to the company, the other is what's fair to the client, and the third is what's fair for the people, our staff. It's always easy to say what you want to do but sometimes you have to put that aside for what's fair for whatever area you're really trying to look at the question from. It's very difficult to do that. Most people will always try to defer their answers to what’s fair to them or what they want to see happen, but sometimes that's not really what's in the best interest if the question is a client related question or a staff question. Sometimes the initial reaction isn't always the right answer; it's got to be evaluated. I always take that very seriously; it’s always very difficult for me to come up with an answer not based upon my personal preference but on many factors.

EC: What was/is one of your proudest moments here at CASCO?

CRM: I think it happens every year; I'm always proudest when I see our yearly tenure awards at our holiday luncheons. I'm proud of those moments because not only am I seeing those people receive their five, ten, or forty-five year award (like we saw last year with Don Falk) and feeling proud of them and what they've accomplished, but also knowing that they would have never had those opportunities had the corporate entity not continued on that long. So it's being proud of the people but also proud that the company continues to exist and do well. This happens every year and I don't miss it. And as much as I don't like speaking, I'm honored to speak for anyone at those tenure awards.

SP: That's commitment nowadays, you don't see a lot of people at one place for forty five years.

CRM: I had a teacher tell me one time that most architectural firms don't last more than seven years, so you're going to have to get used to moving around quite a bit. So to know that this current company, Casco, has been around since 1980, and that it was around twenty years even before that...

SP: And we're still celebrating twenty- and thirty-year employees.

EC: It was a big draw for me, how long the employees here tend to stay.

CRM: Yeah, and I think that might actually be lost on a lot of people. When you're giving out tenure awards of thirty, forty years, and it's not just one but four or five, that does say something for the company. It really does.

EC: If you could choose one amenity to add to the workplace, what would it be?

CRM: Going back to what I said earlier, I think what we need here in this company is a central gathering place. I don't know what that would be, a lot of firms have a coffee area, but I'm not talking about a place to just get a cup of coffee but a central place that would have refrigerators for juice and fruit. A place where you can get away from your desk, and not a closet size but a place where you can gather for a little bit of time, talk a little bit. Again, as I said earlier, communication and inter-office gathering. So I would have some type of a spot, whatever you would want to call that. And it's not like our lunch room - a lunch room is a lunch room, it's cold and there's not much to it. Just have a nice gathering place with some amenities in there, like snacks and drinks. A place people can get up and stretch their legs, talk for a little bit. You need to get up and away from your area; who knows who you'll meet at the gathering spot, right?

SP: I feel like a lot more people would appreciate each other's work if they had insight into what they were doing; how stressed they are, and everything that they actually do.

CRM: Right, and you don't know that though, right now.

SP: If you were stranded on an island, what’s the one book you would want to have with you?

CRM: Okay, I've thought about this before because I've heard that question. I want the Survivalist Book written by Bear Grylls. I mean the other books like the ones I've always read on War and Peace or other gigantic books, well they're not going to do you much good if you can't survive more than a couple days.

EC: Well assuming all your basics were taken care of, is there a narrative you could read forever?

CRM: I'm always a history buff. I also have a Civil War interest so I would like the biggest encyclopedia of the Civil War or the history of the Civil War. There's just so much analysis in it that would keep me busy for a long time.

SP: If you could paint the office any color you wanted, what would it be?

CRM: You won't believe this but I've looked into that too.

SP: Really?

CRM: Yes! My initial answer to that question would have been the brightest white but I’ve researched this. The experts say the office should be painted some type of blue or green to promote production and a tranquil atmosphere. I would go with the experts because I have no idea what I'm doing with colors.

EC: Do you speak any other languages? If so, which ones?

CRM: I don't. Both my grandmothers didn't speak English; one spoke Polish and the other was Bohemian. I only knew certain words, just enough to communicate, but never did learn a complete language.

EC: Do you want to? Now that you're going to have so much time.

CRM: That's not a bad idea. I'll think about that. I've seen Rosetta stone, and if I have all this time maybe I can learn to speak Spanish.

SP: If you had to be on any TV game show, which one would it be?

CRM: Okay, without a doubt, the Amazing Race. The thing I don't get about the Amazing Race, that's the only game show we watch on TV, is the only thing people are freaked out about is trying to win the million dollars at the end. That's really important but you know most experiences are worth a million bucks. I would love just to have that experience. Okay, you're getting on a plane and you're flying to Africa or some place, that's worth a ton of money to me. Yeah, that would be my game.

SP: Who would your partner be?

CRM: You know, we've talked about that too. My youngest daughter Anna has always wanted to do that.

SP: What was the first concert you’ve ever been to? What band?

CRM: That's easy, I saw Chicago in Chicago in 1970. Is there still some place called the Arie Crown Theater by the McCormick Place area?

EC: Yeah.

CRM: That's where it was. It was amazing; Chicago in Chicago.

EC: Which museum is your absolute favorite? Which one are you dying to go to?

CRM: I have two favorites, I can't pick one. My favorite is the Art Institute in Chicago. My second is the Smithsonian's American History Museum. I've always wanted to see the Louvre in Paris, but the one that is close that I've never gone to is the World War II museum in New Orleans.

EC: Were they able to get all the battleships there?

CRM: They were able to get some of the landing craft there, because I think a lot of that was actually made in the New Orleans area. They have some tanks and planes, but it would be interesting because my dad was in WWII.

SP: Who was the most influential person in your life?

CRM: It was my Dad, respected man. He died when I was 24.

EC: Did he steer you towards architecture?

CRM: No, he was a very blue-collar kind of guy. He didn't steer us in any kind of way, he kind of let us all pick our own ways to go. He was very influential in that he gave a very good example on how to approach a lot of things in life, especially how to approach work. The man was never sick, always went to work, and gave it everything he had. He was just that living example that we all had in the family.

EC: If you could only keep one box out of all your stuff, what would you put in that box?

CRM: I already have it. When my daughters were growing up, they of course gave me their pictures to take into work to put up on the wall. Well, I didn't really put them up - I put them into a file - and kept them. And so when I was just clearing out my - I've got twenty boxes already at home - but the first one I took out was all their pictures they had given me, along with all of the things they had made. That would be what I would save, I wouldn’t trade it for anything, artwork and photographs.

SP: If you could splurge on one must have item, what would it be?

CRM: My daughters would love to hear you ask that question. I don't splurge on anything. I don't buy t-shirts when we go on vacations or anything, everybody buys stuff but I splurge on absolutely nothing. What I would do though is probably a splurge on getting a place in the mountains or on a beach, even just for a vacation, for the whole family to go to for one big gathering.

EC: How big is your family?

CRM: Three daughters and now two granddaughters, and of course my wife.

EC: What are your plans after “this retirement”?

CRM: After this retirement... I've got a ton of things to do around the house and stuff like that that I've always postponed. I love doing that kind of stuff, I just never had the time to do it. And then after that, I'm not sure. We'll just have to see. I would probably like to stay involved in some company in some area, I'm not really sure what that would be. I'm just going to play that by ear. I haven't let it be known too much that I'm even leaving Casco; outside of the people here who all know, I haven't really let a lot of my friends outside the office know. So we'll see what happens, I'm just going to wing it.

SP: Do you think you'll get bored?

CRM: No, no. I've heard that before and I don't really understand it. I could learn Spanish. I do like to do a lot of hiking and stuff like that. My wife will still be working; there's a lot of things that I need to do around the house and I do have so many other interests

EC: What did you want to grow up to be when you were little?

CRM: The kind of neighborhood I grew up in, I think one of the most respected roles, believe it or not, was a fireman. Everybody looked up to be a fireman, and I think I remember my kindergarten - they had a graduation in kindergarten - they made every child say what they wanted to be when they grew up. I believe I said fireman, because that to me was just the coolest thing. You got to ride on those trucks and everybody wants to wave to you, and you get the Dalmatian dog that live in your firehouse.

EC: And in Chicago they'd be busy all the time.

CRM: Yeah. *laughs* One of them was right down the street from my grandmother's house on 33rd place. It was just so cool. When we'd hear the fire alarms going off, because you could hear them outside down the block, the kids would all just run down there to watch these guys get on their fire engines and take off.

EC: Was there a fire pole?

CRM: Yes, there was a pole! And when they weren't busy the firemen would allow the kids to go into the bay and look, and of course the kids didn't care about anything other than the pole.

EC: Which school did you go to?

CRM: When I was there in grade school I went to St. Michael's on Damen and 46th, and later I went to St. Simon's Grade School. We moved further towards the Kedzie area.

“A meal to me is not just the food but is the environment or who is with you.

My favorite meal would be the whole family around one table.”

SP: If you could choose from any restaurant or cook in the world, what would your perfect meal be?

CRM: I think that whenever people talk about fine food that sometimes they come across as pretty pretentious. My favorite meal, a meal to me is not just the food but is the environment or who is with you, would be the whole family around one table. We have Sunday brunches once and a while where everybody gathers around one table and someone has to hold the baby while the others eat. I don't think you can get a better meal, it doesn't have to be going to Italy or something like that, it can be right in Millstadt, IL.

Outgoing and talkative were not words used to describe Carl. During the interview, it was clear that he’s just a very quiet and thoughtful man who prefers to keep his personal life private. Being someone who has worked with Carl for a couple of years but never really engaged in very many conversations, I was surprised at how much he had to say when answering some of the questions we asked. Watching his face light up when he mentioned history or answered some of the personal questions made that whole 45-minute interview worthwhile.

#history #architect #career #AuthorSelita #AuthorErin #carlmusial #Casco